JSF in SF

Tuesday, February 21, 2006

Usability problems in JSF

JSF is not perfect, nor the greatest thing since sliced bread. There, I said it!

What bugs me most (and remember, I'm still a big fan) is that JSF was supposed to be really easy-to-use. In many ways, it is very easy. But the reality isn't always quite so sweet. There's shortfalls that make the learning curve longer than it should be, and they are fixable.

The most annoying problem is that errors simply result in big stack traces. There's nothing wrong with stack traces per se, but by themselves they're totally insufficient for error diagnosis. Real diagnosis requires at a minimum:

  • Line and column numbers, as well as file name. And even better, the snippet of content from that document that matches up.

  • If an EL expression fails, information on what part of the EL expression failed. (When a complicated expression like #{foo.bar.baz == my.other.expression} fails, it's very hard to figure out what went wrong.)

In general, all exceptions thrown anywhere in JSF or JSPs should be vetted to ensure that they:
  • Contain a meaningful, useful error message
  • Contain enough context to point out what bit of user content failed
  • Never, ever drop the base error, if one is being wrapped
A second category of annoyances in JSF consist of "nothing happened" problems. For example, if a validation error stops you from going on to Invoke Application, but you've forgotten to add an tag or something similar to your page, all that you see is - nothing.

Finally, when you do figure out what you've done wrong, quite often you need to bounce the server to pick up the changes. Any changes to WEB-INF/faces-config.xml require this. That's a huge productivity hit.

So, that's my hit list for JSF usability problems. What are your biggest JSF usability concerns?

[PS: Yes, I edited the wording a bit. It was coming across as an angry rant that JSF isn't useable, which isn't where I'm coming from.]

217 Comments:

  • I agree that error handling could be better-- a majority of it is fixable now. Other than that, I think JSF should be stateless as in request scope. Create the intended view early, decode the view (we are guaranteed state transfer because of form relationships), and then continue. Secondly, provide some front controller mechanism, maybe that's inherent in doing a postback with an immediate action during decode?

    By Blogger Jacob Hookom, at 7:47 AM  

  • The thing that bothers me the most about JSF are DataTables. I wish I had an idea to replace them but I don't. :) The things that bug me the most about them are:

    1. I hate the fact that I can traverse my component tree and manipulate the value of components just fine until I reach a DataTable. DataTables seem to step outside of several basic JSF concepts.

    2. UIData is very complex with several ugly cluges which make it very hard to extend. (ie the saved component values for recursive tables and many others)

    Mike

    By Anonymous Mike Youngstrom, at 9:03 AM  

  • Jacob: I don't see statelessness as helping ease of use - in fact, I see that approach as hurting usability. It certainly could improve scalability, but that's not the same thing.

    Mike: yeah, UIData is a pain. The underlying problem for us on JSF of your (1) is how do you write out hundreds if not thousands of cells without creating hundreds or thousands of components? For (2), that's a combination of UIData being an ugly component, and of state saving being poorly designed in JSF (see a prior post) - if state saving was done well, the whole "saved component values" thing would just be state saving, period.

    By Blogger Adam Winer, at 9:18 AM  

  • A-Dub: Stateless as in request scope doesn't hurt, you still have the 'reachability' that you do currently, just that components are instantiated early. Usability wise, state saving already sucks, so given our current condition, what's default request scope instantiation going to hurt, but help scalability? :-)

    By Blogger Jacob Hookom, at 9:26 AM  

  • Jacob: we can take this to e-mail :), but "we are guaranteed state transfer because of form relationships" is false. True enough for basic form components, yeah, but false once you have more interesting UI components on the page.

    By Blogger Adam Winer, at 9:56 AM  

  • A.W: I know we have the more interesting issues, but at least the current implementations provide a scope to page state (forms) that can be scaled. I'm not specifically referring to doing away with serialized view state, just noting that there's some flexability in component implementations given the expectations of current implementations.

    By Blogger Jacob Hookom, at 10:24 AM  

  • adam: Well, like I said I wish I had a solutions. :) But actually as I was thinking of it a number of my problems with #1 could be solved if perhaps UIData provided an overloaded getChildren() method that would accepted a rowIndex and returned a list of children containing the data for that row.

    However, this method would need to have the requirement of not messing up the current UIData's rowindex, in case it is in the middle of an iteration, and would have to be able to maintain the state of any of the returned components if their values changed.

    This would probably be impossible given my #2. :)

    For future reference the Use Case I have for #1 is this:

    I have a list of data displayed in a DataTable using inputText components. If I change the value of one of the rows I want to in turn change the values of all of the other rows. So, in my ValueChangeEvent I can easily change the values of the backing DataModel, however, because I'm using inputText components they are all set "submittedValue" to true and don't get their updated value from the DataModel at the next rendering of the page so the new values in the DataModel are not displayed. This can easily be fixed in a non DataTable situation by delving into the tree or binding to the related components and manipulating the components manually. However, this cannot be done in a DataTable.

    Mike

    By Blogger Mike Youngstrom, at 12:18 PM  

  • On second though. Perhaps I could solve my use case by using setRowIndex() to move around and manipulate the component values inside of an event. Except I'd have to make sure to return the UIData to the current row index before exiting the event. Maybe that would work for my use case. Either way, UIData is sure confusing and hard to use and it would be nice if it were easier. :)

    Mike

    By Blogger Mike Youngstrom, at 1:09 PM  

  • mike, if you are looking to 'reach into' a UIData to operate on some child components, then JSF 1.2 now includes UIComponent.invokeOnComponent(...) which will find the correct component and pass it to a ContextCallback parameter-- very much like listeners in Swing.

    By Blogger Jacob Hookom, at 2:43 PM  

  • I also echo the error handling issue, with an extra wrinkle. Not only would I like better error messages, I'd also like a means of catching and handling some errors.

    In particular, I generally use Managed Bean setter methods as a place for my bean initialization logic. I can cleanly inject web request parameters, and use it to load data. I'd like some mechanism to catch and report any load errors. It would also be useful to gracefully handle other setters, for integration with model objects with internal validation logic.

    Also: support collections other than lists.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 8:09 PM  

  • What about a more basic thing like you're restricted to use Lists. Now since the collections API is quite good (except maybe for the Bags part), we've got a restriction to use lists. And we're stuck with glue code once more. Didn't SUN learn a thing with EJB < 3.0 ?
    Another thing is SelectItems, which are workable, but why not have 2 attribute to them where it should retrieve key and value?

    By Anonymous Koen Serry, at 12:09 AM  

  • Koen, anonymous,

    The problem with supporting collections other than lists is that UIData really does want indexed access; you can display a 10,000 row data set, and ask to see rows 9,000 to 9,010.

    We could support arbitary collections, but performance would be awful for large collections that aren't Lists. Which is a difficult ease-of-use question: are we better off with a scenario where it always just works, but can be hideously slow if you don't know what you're doing?

    OTOH, we'd already be slow if you picked a LinkedList and loaded it with a large number of items - but OTOOH I'd be hard pressed to imagine anyone doing that.

    What I do wish is that UIData's support for data types was pluggable; in the same way that you can use PropertyResolver (or ELResolver) to add support to EL for a new indexed type, shouldn't you be able to do so with UIData?

    By Blogger Adam Winer, at 10:39 AM  

  • Anonymous: catching and handling load errors is a very good point - ditto exceptions in action methods. For now, you might consider using Spring-JSF integration; for JSF 2.0, we should consider stealing, um, er, borrowing key concepts or annotations.

    By Blogger Adam Winer, at 10:42 AM  

  • Adam,

    I'd like to see support for GET submits, or some facility that supports GET-like submits conveniently. Out of the box, JSF doesn't provide this functionality very easily i.e. bookmarkable URLs, hackable URLs, readable URLs, reliable URLs, etc. Also, if possible, I'd like to hear the reasons why it is recommended that all form submissions in JSF happen via POST

    Thank you,

    -Marc

    By Anonymous Marc Chung, at 12:49 PM  

  • Marc,

    Good bookmarkability is a significant issue, but I'm not trying to gather feature requests here - I'm looking specifically for usability problems. Point taken, though.

    By Blogger Adam Winer, at 4:23 PM  

  • Marc: JSF component requests are Posts since they modify the state of the server as per W3C. In terms of GET requests, you could easily create 'foo.jsp', create a backing bean that has #{param.id} as a property of it, and then call 'foo.jsf?id=4322' and you would accomplish GET requests. No one says that all JSF requests have to be POSTS, just component requests are usually done this way. If you are looking for a 'front controller' as in Struts, then you could easily write a PhaseListener or another type of JSF Listener that does RoR-like mappings to method invocations where '/faces/beanA/action' will invoke #{beanA.action} as a front-controller, supporting GET/stateless requests.

    By Blogger Jacob Hookom, at 9:09 PM  

  • I also agree error reporting needs improvement. We use MyFaces and Tobago and sometimes the stacktraces are 3+ screens long and repeated 2-3 times... which only makes for harder-to-find bugs.

    Can error reporting be improved in JSF/MyFaces?

    By Anonymous Alex Boisvert, at 11:03 AM  

  • Here are the things wrong with JSF, in my anonymous opinion. These, of course are in addition to what has already been pointed out.

    1) One that makes JSF terrible to use is the JSF EL. I'm not sure if you mentioned anything about this before, but it is awful not being able to call methods requiring parameters or methods that don't start with "get", for that matter. There are a number of other limitations I can't think of offhand that make using JSF EL absolutely awful.

    Say for instance, I'm writing an app that links from a list to details on an item. I could simply have a getItem(id) method and set the ID somewhere in a session or request variable without having to code in extra stuff in my JSF backing classes to retrieve it. Better yet, I could just get the same list I used previously and call the item(#) method without having to code ANYTHING to retrieve the individual item details.

    2) HTML - Ideally, I would like to avoid writing HTML at all. JSF components aren't good enough to do that yet, so injecting HTML is the only way to accomplish certain tasks. Wrapping stuff in verbatim tags all over the place is rediculous. On the same note - writing custom components could be MUCH easier if pages were logically rendered (you could mix HTML, JSTL, and JSF without problems). Take a look at Tapestry, you can have someone who doesn't know anything about Java programming write HTML for custom components. In ADF Faces, there's a "region" tag which allows you to define custom "regions" which are similar to templates and pass named attributes them like templates. This should be a standard feature in JSF, but implemented such that you can have someone write a component in HTML/JSTL that way.

    3) JSTL... This is supposed to be better with the upcoming releases of the corresponding technologies. Looking at the changes, I don't think it's going to be as much of an improvement as it needs to be.

    All in all, I hate working with JSF. As someone said before, the problems with it make it too difficult to work with all the good stuff about it. I'm going to go back to writing C++ CGI scripts...

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:30 AM  

  • Interestingly, Facelets solve the aforementioned problems #1 and #2... if only they had better ADF support... Adam? :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:03 AM  

  • Oh, and Facelets solve the error reporting problems you mention as the bulk of your blog: https://facelets.dev.java.net/.

    :)

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 6:04 AM  

  • Taking the latest comments in reverse order...

    I definitely know Facelets helps a number of the error reporting details; but it doesn't (and can't) help 'em all.

    In regards to: "if only [Facelets] had better ADF support..." One of the contributed libraries to Facelets is full ADF Faces support - as best I know, ADF Faces has far better Facelets support than any of the other major component libraries.

    "JSTL"... it will work with JSF 1.2.

    "HTML... Ideally, I would like to avoid writing HTML at all. JSF components aren't good enough to do that yet, so injecting HTML is the only way to accomplish certain tasks. Wrapping stuff in verbatim tags all over the place is rediculous. ... Take a look at Tapestry"

    First, check out ADF Faces. You can easily build many pages without any HTML at all - I do all the time. Second, verbatim tags are history as of JSF 1.2. (I'm looking for usability problems that haven't been fixed already). Finally, you don't want to write any HTML, but you're suggesting we should look at Tapestry? That seems inconsistent.

    "The JSF EL ... it is awful not being able to call methods requiring parameters or methods that don't start with "get", for that matter".

    Well, I like not exposing every single method into the EL; it keeps my designs clean and stops users from injecting behavior where simple data retrieval is more appropriate. On occasion, parameterized methods would be handy, I agree. But in general, claims that the EL makes developing JSF applications unbearably painful is just so much hyperbole. The point of this post was to look for constructive feedback.

    By Blogger Adam Winer, at 9:30 PM  

  • One of the most frequent issues hit by JSF users is request-scoped data being used by page-scoped components, typically with UIData or UICommand components.

    It seems as if every framework out there "solves" the problem using a variation of Tomahawk's saveState component, which extends a request-scoped component to page-scoped.

    I think having a saveState equivalent as part of JSF would solve a large set of JSF usability issues. Sure, it's easy enough to use t:saveState once you know about it, but because it's not part of the standard, there's a lot of pain involved getting to that state, and every person has to be individually-trained to use t:saveState or an equivalent.

    What about the possibility of a page-scope for managed beans? It wouldn't be as flexible as saveState and the alternatives, but it'd be more visible and would solve most of the use-cases.

    Or perhaps a better solution is to add t:saveState as a core jsf tag.

    By Anonymous Mike Kienenberger, at 11:10 AM  

  • I18N ... maybe a topic just as boring as error handling. But, since you brought up usability, I'll take my chance! Writing international applications will cause the experienced developer to have many late night debugging sessions. And the average developer will be lost. I maybe spend 15%-20% of my web development time figuring out how my web components handle I18N issues.

    In theory, I18N should be easy, but reality is different. This is true on any level: core Java, J2EE, JSF, available component libraries.

    Note that many Java libraries assume that there is one Locale. This is not true in a web context, where you have typically different locales per request. In my app, a German speaking Swiss hotelier might serve a Japanese customer, so there might be a mix of everything (even in a single thread).

    If you read the mailing lists of my-faces or facelets, you see that many people struggle with character set issues. It's a pain! Maybe 80% of Java Web developers think they are doing UTF-8, and 80% of them are in fact delivering ISO 8859.


    People in central Europe separate fractional digits with a comma, whereas the anglosaxon region uses points. This is well known. Unfortunately, central Europeans got trained and used to the point, so they enter a point even in properly internationalized apps. My Java web app (I guess it's a J2SE problem) now interprets the . as a thousands separator, multiplying the amount by thousand. Stupid, but true. I have no means against that, so I need to remove the nice f:validateDoubleRange validator and fall back to hand-parsed strings.

    To give another awful example. I'm using the ADF selectInputDate control. If you are in a timezone before GMT, the date will be decreased by one day on every submit. Cool, isn't it? I don't know who's to blame for that, but essentially it goes like this: 1. April 2006 0:00 CET => 31 March 2005 GMT 23:00 => cut-off for display 31 March 2005 => 31 March 2005 GMT 0:00 => 31 March CET 1:00 cut-off because db only stores date part => 31 March CET 0:00. Welcome to time zone hell, one of the darkest corners of I18N.

    So, my usability issue is: never forget about I18N. There are locales, charsets, timezones, and others. They need to be configurable, they need to be documented, they need to be tested. And there should never be any "well-meant" assumptions (the JDK is full of them)...

    my 2 cents
    Frank Felix

    By Anonymous FFD, at 2:17 PM  

  • The biggest problem with JSF is that it requires many backing beans to live in session scope. I have no clue how I should sell this to my customers. Just imagine amazon would use JSF and tell you that you can't view two products at the same time (or strange things might happen when you click on the add to cart button on the first page) [and you can't use bookmarks on the product pages].

    In rare cases this might be okay, but there must be a clean way to keep the state on the client for the other cases.

    Yours,
    Stefan

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 2:09 PM  

  • I'm not sure if I may be missing some of the functionality provided by JSF but it's been my experience that adding custom javascript functions to a JSP page is a real pain.

    The problem (as I perceive it) is JSF's complex naming schemes for form elements: i.e. myView:myForm:myInput.

    This makes writing robust javascript very cumbersome.

    Or am I missing something that EL can do for me in my javascript functions?

    By Blogger werner, at 12:12 AM  

  • I'd echo Stefan's concerns, big time. We're now trying to figure out how to hack around this JSF limitation.

    Another usability problem: errors mess up the navigation! Once the app gets an exception, the user is stuck and can't navigate anywhere without getting the same stack trace! With action oriented frameworks, I can pick up from where I left off! Sure, I'll have to prevent that problem before the app goes to prod, but during dev it's a huge usability problem for me, the developer!

    But the biggest problem I have is non-upgradability. With any other framework, I can upgrade anytime. With JSF, a lot of problems are "already fixed in 1.2!!!" Well that doesn't do me any good. I'm not using Java 5. My employer isn't going to pay IBM another $15,000 just so the lowly developer can use the next JSF version!

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:13 AM  

  • I'd agree that some aspects of JSF are very good, but the remaining 20-30% that forms the bad parts make using it absolutely unbearable, enough IMHO to steer clear of it and fall back to something you know works. The amount of times I've been stuck for literally hours trying to get a component to behave, or a checkbox to remain checked, a table row selected etc is just rediculous. Perhaps everything I've run into are implementation issues rather than spec, I'm not sure. One problem I've just solved was the magically invocation of setting immediate=true. The 'immediate' flag is madness.

    By Anonymous Anonymous, at 7:54 PM  

  • can anybody please tell me alternative for t:savestate because of this i m getting memory heap problem ,the value i am going to save in it is creating problem as i think
    if i am wrong please correct me

    By Blogger kailash, at 10:20 PM  

  • I am new to JSF, i found one problem, that is printing of validation messages in inconsistent order. May be i dont know the way, but i did not find any solution to print the validation error messages with h:messages tag, according to field order. It just printing randomly. Please help me if any one knows the solution.

    By Blogger Waqas, at 1:13 AM  

  • the 'reachability' that you do currently, just that components are instantiated early.
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  • maybe that's inherent in doing a postback with an immediate action during decode?
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  • The most annoying problem is that errors simply result in big stack traces. There's nothing wrong with stack traces per se, but by themselves they're totally insufficient for error diagnosis. Real diagnosis requires at a minimum:
    http://sfjsf.blogspot.com/2006/02/usability-problems-in-jsf.html

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